Salt + Light Fort Worth

so it impacts everyone somehow.

And there's been so many books written
on it, so many blogs written on it.

So many interpretations given
most are unclear at best.

Spoiler alert will probably
be a little bit unclear today.

'cause if it was easy to solve,
we would've solved it by now.

Um, many contradict each other at worse.

The these are, these are loaded verses
You felt that even as Nicole read them.

Um, and she read them in one translation.

I'm gonna come out of another translation
in part to see like, it, it is

confusing even the way the different,
different English translations talk

about 'em, they're, they're confusing.

Um, on top of the confusion, on top
of the loaded, there, there are some

realities of these verses that I'm
gonna mention today, but that we're

gonna have to flesh out next week.

So this, they're, they're intertwined
verse the end of first Timothy two,

uh, start of first Timothy three.

So we're gonna have to
see this as two halves.

And so you're gonna walk out
of here a little bit, having

to be patient for next week.

Um, but, but here's my hope and prayer
all week long for the last couple

weeks, is that even though these are
perhaps the most divisive passages in

the New Testament around the church.

Um, they don't have to divide a church.

That's, that's my hope And prayer.

They're, they're divisive verses, but
they don't have to divide a church.

Um, it's okay to hold nuanced views.

Um, no one, again, no one throughout
history is a hundred percent

certain that they can say with
confidence, here's what this means.

And, and, and we see if you're with us
in January, even when we started Genesis,

um, God throughout history and throughout
all of his creation is glorified

by having unity in our differences
and having respect for one another.

Cool.

Mm-hmm.

All right.

So there's a lot we're gonna dive in.

Uh, but there's three truths
that, that we're, that we're gonna

hopefully walk out of here with today.

And it's this.

Both men and women must
rely on God's power.

Both men and women must learn and teach
in God's authority, and both men and

women find salvation in Christ alone.

We can at least agree on that last one.

Hopefully, lemme pray.

Um, father, uh, you
know, I've prayed this.

I wanna pray this on all
of our behalf though.

Would you help us in love, help us
to know and love you more today as we

try to grasp these verses and would
you help us to, to walk out of here

with more of you as we see your design
for your church and your people?

And we can't, I can't conjure that up.

I can't teach well enough to conjure
that up, so we need you to do that in us.

It's in your son's name.

Amen.

All right, so our first week in First
Timothy, um, we said, um, that there are a

lot of, uh, ways to interpret scriptures.

There's, there's all this truth Paul
starts with, with giving us truth, um,

giving Timothy truth, and then also
saying, we, we gotta guard against

false teaching distortions of the truth.

We also said no one gets
it a hundred percent right.

Um, no one in history gets any truth a
hundred percent right except for Jesus.

And so today's verses.

Help us see two sides of rightly
reading any passage of the Bible.

So the things we're gonna talk about
for just a few minutes before diving

in would be true of any passage of
the Bible you come to, no matter

how clear or how confusing it is.

Um, and, and the first is this.

We have to read the Bible
in light of the Bible.

You have to read the Bible in light
of the Bible to rightly read any of

the past, any passage of the Bible.

Biblical context matters.

The other verses, the other books
matter and we must interpret the Bible

in light of its historical culture.

There's things that were happening
in ancient Israel that do not happen

in 21st century America today, and
we have to know as much as we can.

We don't know everything, um,
but we have to interpret the

Bible in light of the Bible.

We have to interpret the Bible in
light of its original cultural.

Context.

Both of those things are vital and
both help us guard against misreading.

Um, and so as it relates to the Bible
there, there's a danger in zooming

in on any few words, any one word,
any one sentence, any one paragraph,

because as we talk about a lot in
our little church family, the Bible

at its core is one big story of God.

From Genesis to Revelation,
it's God, it's redemptive story

of a broken and sinful world.

It's God coming to us
to do what we can't do.

Um, that's what the Bible is.

It's less a, a book of rules.

It's less a book of things to achieve.

It's, it's one big story of God.

And so, so in the same way, like you
would never pull out one paragraph

of the whole Harry Potter series
and go, this is what it's about.

Or one paragraph of Diary of
Anne Frank or any other book.

In, in the same way, like you would
read that in light of the whole,

the same is true of the Bible.

You'd see that paragraph in
light of the rest of the story.

We must do that.

And so as it relates to second,
uh, to one Timothy two, there's

three realities in the Bible.

Three themes in the Bible
that especially matter.

There's plenty more.

I had to cut a lot.

Um, but there's three things
that especially matter.

The first is this way back in
Genesis, Adam and Eve both sinned.

And sin affects their relationship
with both God and each other.

You agree with that?

Adam and Eve both sinned.

Paul highlights one more than the
other in this passage, but they

both send, that's part of Biblical
context and sin affects their

relationship with God and each other.

So here's what Genesis three says.

The serpent was more crafty than any other
beast in the field that God had made.

And the serpent said to the woman,
did God actually say you'll not?

You must not eat of
any tree in the garden.

And the woman said to the serpent,
we may eat of any tree in the garden,

but God said, you shall not eat of
the fruit of the tree, the one tree

that's in the midst of the garden.

Neither shall you touch it lest you die.

That's not exactly what God
said, but the serpent said to

the woman, you'll not surely die.

For God knows that when you
eat of it, your eyes will be

opened and you will be like God.

Which is the core of all of our
issue for the record, is that

we are trying to be like God in
some way, knowing good from evil.

And then when the woman saw that
the tree was good and that it was

a delight to the eyes and that the
tree was to be desired to make one

wise, she took the fruit and ate.

And she also gave some to her
husband who was with her, and he ate.

And then God comes and finds them.

They realize their sin, they
realize their brokenness.

And just zooming in on one verse,
God said to the woman, I will

multiply your pain and childbearing
that comes back in one Timothy two.

In pain.

You shall bring forth children, but
then this next part comes back as well.

Your desire shall be for your
husband and he will rule over you.

Now, it's a good thing
for wives to desire.

Husbands, yes.

Ooh yes.

I thought we'd be stronger
and unified on that.

Isn't it good for husbands and
wives to desire each other?

Yes.

Yes.

What this is talking about is your desire
will be for domination over your husband.

Your desire will, will be to rule to
husband and, and he will rule over you.

So there's this, this brokenness
that's being given in both

sides of the relationship.

CS Lewis, who wrote Narnia and a
lot of other amazing books, has this

beautiful picture of what happened
in Genesis three, is that Adam Eve's

hearts curved in on themselves.

That's how CS Lewis says it.

So they went from others focused God
focus, creation focus to self-focus,

to being absorbed with the glory of
God, to being absorbed with the glory

of self again, like I don't have
to convince you that that's true.

'cause we feel that, don't we?

So that's the first biblical reality
that is true, that we have to read

one Timothy in light of the second
is this Paul Exhorts everyone.

To use their gifts for mission and
ministry and elsewhere in the New

Testament, both men and women are
seen serving in, in almost every

form of mission and ministry.

Men, men and women are seen serving
in every act of mission and ministry.

So there's not a debate about men.

So I'm gonna share a few examples
of what we see of women in ministry.

So in Acts, uh, the Book of Acts,
Luke writes, Apollos began to

speak boldly in the synagogue.

But when Priscilla and Aquila
massive, that, that, that

Luke puts Priscilla first.

That was counter-cultural at the time.

So when Priscilla and Aquila heard
Apollos, they took him aside, both

took him aside and explained to
him the way of God more accurately.

Later in the book of Acts, Philip
had four unmarried daughters who

prophesied the book of Romans.

Paul says, I commend to your sister
Phoebe, a servant of the church, um,

skipping a little bit, that you may
welcome her and the Lord to help her

in whatever may way she may need for.

She is a patron of many
and of myself as well.

Phoebe is the woman who brought the
book of, uh, Romans, the letter of

Romans to the church at Rome, and at
the time, letter bearers were also

commenters commentators on, on the book.

So Phoebe's doing what
I'm doing right now.

Um, here, here's a letter from Paul.

Let me tell you, let me
interpret, let me, let me talk

with you about what that means.

That matters.

I'm just trying to paint some
pictures, give some examples here.

Philippians four, uh, Paul Exhorts helped
these women who have labored side by

side with me in the gospel together.

Paul has women on his, his teams, on
his leadership teams throughout his

apostolic ministry, and then in Romans,
um, he exhorts the church at Rome's.

Part of what Phoebe would've read
and commentated on greet andronicus.

Who is a man and junior who is a woman,
Mike Kinsman and fellow prisoners.

They were, if you have an ESV
Bible or some others, it says

well known among the apostles and
they were in Christ before me.

They're, they're Christ.

They've been Christians
for longer than I have.

Okay.

I've crossed out the word to, I want,
I want you to know we're not changing

what the Bible says today, okay?

I need to make that very clear.

We rarely.

I spend a lot of time fleshing
out Greek words in salt and light.

Um, most like the first, the first memory,
I have a preacher saying like, you know

what this means in the Greek is something
like, okay, so, so this says everyone.

You know what everyone means
in the Greek means everyone.

It's like, that's utterly unhelpful.

So we, we, we don't do a lot of that.

We, we try not to make some divide of
like, oh, I studied the Greek a little

more than you did this week, but for
this passage, the Greek really matters.

Hmm, the Greek really matters.

Um, the new international version of
the Bible, if that's what you have,

NIV, the King James, the ESV, the CSV,
there's all these different English

translations of the Bible, and everyone
translates not just this passage,

but, but many passages differently.

And so we have to seek,
especially for this passage,

what is the best translation?

What is the right translation?

Again, no one's landed on it a hundred
percent, but we gotta aim for the best.

Um, in the NIV, which some of you
have in the King James, new King

James, some other translations.

Um, this verse doesn't say that
these women, this man and this one

are well known to the apostles.

Anyone have it?

What's it say?

I didn't ask you to turn here.

That's unfair of me.

Um, it says they're well known
among the apostles, which is to say

that this man and this woman are,
are among the apo they're, they're

among the church leadership, global
church leadership at the time.

That, that it's nuance, but it matters.

You see, it's just one says
the apostles know them.

Others say like, they're, they're
part of this team and that matters.

So we're gonna do this a few times today.

We're gonna dig into the
Greek, put on your nerd glasses

with me 'cause it matters.

But back to these verses.

Um, these are just a few examples among
many where Paul values women in ministry.

Um.

In Romans chapter 12, he, he says
this, we're all one body and we

have many members, and the members
do not all have the same function.

So we though many are one body in
Christ and individually members one

of another, having gifts that differ
according to the grace given to us, let

us use our gifts and then pay attention.

Here he gets into.

Examples if prophecy in proportion to
our faith if service in our serving.

If you have the gift of prophecy prophesy,
if you have the gift of service, sir,

to the one who teaches in his teaching.

Okay?

Again, my translation, the ESV adds
his, it is not there in the Greek.

One of the realities of
translating from Greek to English

is that no one can help this.

We can't help but translate
through our traditions.

We can't help but translate through
our education and this kind of stuff.

And the folks who translated some of
the scriptures that are most common,

and most frankly most accurate,
are not a hundred percent accurate.

And so the same article
is before each of these.

So literally say to the one who
prophesies in his prophesying to the

one who serves in his service, to
the one who teaches in his teaching.

So it's either all these
things are only to men.

Or it's using mankind, his in
the same way that we do today.

Like, Hey guys, fair again.

Nerd glasses.

It matters so rightly if service
in our serving, the one who teaches

in their teaching, the one who
exhorts in their exhortation, one

who contributes in generosity, the
one who leads with zeal, the one

of acts of mercy with cheerfulness.

You see why this matters?

Church.

These are just a few examples among
many of Paul valuing women in ministry.

And, and here's what, here's,
here's why I'm dwelling on this.

Who wrote first Timothy, the Apostle
Paul, who, who wrote these other things?

Most of them, Luke did some,
but who wrote to Romans?

Philippians the same.

Paul who wrote, first Timothy wrote
these other letters and exhorts everyone.

Man, woman.

And we can extrapolate
child to, to use their.

That matters.

That's the second biblical reality.

The third biblical reality is
that we believe, which verses will

come to like in November in second
Timothy, where Paul writes the same.

Paul says that all scriptures
breathed out by God and is profitable.

Oh, is it going alright?

All scriptures weed out by God and is
profitable for teaching, for proof, for

correction, for training in righteousness.

Okay.

All Paul is saying is that the
whole Bible applies throughout

history and across the world.

Fair.

The whole Bible applies throughout
history and across the world.

So again, here's why this matters

verses in Acts and Philippians and
Romans, they're not limited to just

one city at just one time in history.

So Paul writes about Phoebe and
Junior and this kind of stuff

that that's, that's a principle.

For all of history across the world at the
same time, this is where it gets tricky.

These few verses in one Timothy don't
just apply to first century Ephesus.

We believe that Paul is giving
Exportations for all Christians,

all churches throughout
history and across the world.

Good

arousing?

Yes.

We're good.

Okay.

Do you see why biblical context matters?

Yes, like, like without the rest
of the New Testament, it would be

easy to read just these verses and
people have done this ad nauseum

without the rest of the Bible.

People could read these verses and
it would be easy to think that Paul

blocks women from any public ministry.

And again, some trans translations
hold very highly of the of you.

We want to submit.

No, that's not what's happening here.

And if we don't believe that all
scriptures useful and applies today, on

the other end of the spectrum, it could
be easy to assume that one Timothy two

addresses only Ephesus specific issues.

And to that, we also want to say no.

What Paul's talking about applies in
Ephesus and throughout history and across

the world, biblical context matters.

Also, historical culture matters.

So just very quickly on these one.

The Roman Empire is a patriarchal society
where women were legally and socially

subordinate to men and outside of a
few specific rich people, learning was

limited to women, to girls and women.

Okay, that's just, you can go look it up.

Um, second, there was a major temple in
Ephesus, home to the cult of Artemis.

Still one of the seven
wonders of the world.

Uh, the cult of Artemis.

I'm gonna be careful with my words
as we talk about Artemis here.

It's a fertility cult.

And so the only priest of authorities
in this cult were women and much

worship with air quotes were lewd
acts 'cause it's a fertility cult.

So that's a reality.

And Ephesus that matters
as Paul's writing to this.

So there's three biblical realities,
two historical culture realities.

There's plenty more, but we have
to tuck those away as we approach

these verses 'cause they matter.

Better.

With that said, let's
try to read these verses.

Well, first, Paul's going to tell both men
and women, you must rely on God's power.

You must rely on God's power.

I desire then that in every place
men should pray, lifting holy

hands without anger or quarreling.

Likewise.

Also, that women should adorn themselves
with respectable apparel, with modesty

and self-control, not with braided hair
or gold or pearls or costly attire,

but with what is proper for women who
profess godliness with good works,

profess godliness with good works.

All right, so, so first, um, I want you
to see that in, in, in a Roman Empire

where learning was limited for women,
Paul is making a counter-cultural

assumption that women will learn.

Okay.

He says he's going to say in the
next verse, actually, let women learn

quietly with all submissiveness.

So we'll come back to those hard
words, but, but his assumption is

that, that women are going to learn.

That's not the question.

Okay?

Men and women will learn.

This is echoing Jesus
with Mary and Martha.

The, the, the, the place of a
woman is not just subservient.

It's not just this, this
second rate posture.

Women are valued disciples.

Yes.

Women must grow in Jesus.

There's not a question with that.

At the same time, throughout
history, in every culture, there

are male and female stereotypes.

Yes.

Like today, it might be the
battle of the sexist game.

We see this all the time on bad tv, like
men are macho, raging, bumbling, idiots.

Right?

And women are vain, gossipy,
domineering, matriarchs.

Right.

Again, you can, you can find.

Exceptions to that rule, but by and
large, like these are not like, oh, I

didn't, I've never seen that in culture
today, like we have these stereotypes.

There is similar stereotypes
in, in a lot of cultures,

including first century Ephesus.

So Paul's first ex exploitation is
both simply to correct men and women.

Stop giving into the stereotypes.

Stop playing into what the
world says is true of you.

So verse eight, first century,
and if I may, 21st century men.

Stop relying on yourselves to
provide, to make things happen.

Stop trying to prove your power.

Stop trying to fight and clamor
and domineer and show that

you're bigger, better, faster,
stronger than everybody else.

Instead, men look to God

first century and 21st century men.

Pray, trust God, not yourself.

Receive.

We do this at the end of our gatherings.

We ask you to stand and open your
hands to receive a blessing from God.

This is what praying with
open hands looks like.

What is this?

Posture, friends, surrender.

Surrender need.

I mean, it's the, the orphan.

Please, sir.

Does that counter stereotypical maleness?

Which is about quarreling and
power and this kind of stuff.

Paul's, Paul's saying,
you're, you're powerless, men.

So fight the stereotype.

Fight the, the, the closing in
from Genesis three on yourself.

Self-absorption, self-reliance.

Pray with open hands.

Rely on God alone.

Women, you fight stereotypes too.

First century and 21st century women.

Paul's saying, don't base
your worth on your appearance.

We can extrapolate some of
these things out to say,

revealing clothes, amazing hair.

Wow, fine jewelry.

Some of you may need to hear the state.

Your value is not in what people
think of you, of of other women.

Being jealous of you, of
men's attraction to you again.

Does that run rampant in our world today?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so what Paul's saying
is, is, is not limiting.

It's free.

Like what?

Ladies?

You are free to, to be modest and not
find your value in sensual attraction.

You're free to find your worth
in a better identity than a

patriarchal society would say.

You're free to find your identity in
good works, self-control, godliness,

these things fight stereotypes.

Yes.

So Paul would say, embody an
inward identity more than an

outward identity as as to men.

Paul's expect to women is not
intended to be limiting or legalistic.

It's an invitation to look beyond
yourself, to look beyond yourself

absorption, to look beyond your
appearance, and to rely on God alone

and, and both in the church and outside.

Men and women probably need.

To hear similar words today, to to
push us, to constantly push us to

rely on God over self because similar
stereotypes are still at play.

True.

There's more to say on that, but
these are the clearest verses of

today, so we're gonna move on.

So men and women must rely on God's power.

Second, men and women must learn
and teach in God's authority.

I already referenced some of this.

Let a woman learn quietly
with all submissiveness.

I do not permit a woman to teach
or exercise authority over a

man, rather she is to stay quiet.

Again, the question is
not whether women learn.

Paul's counter culturally saying
Women are going to learn, women are

going to to be valued disciples,
women must grow in Christ.

That's not the question here.

What is the question?

Is how that discipleship looks.

How women learn and grow and serve Jesus.

And again, there's dozens of views.

But for the sake of time,
I'm gonna cut to the chase.

Salt and light believes that every man and
woman and child who is experienced to some

degree and meets biblical qualifications,
can use any gift that God's given

you for the building up of the body.

This shouldn't surprise you.

This is how we've operated
since the beginning.

But we believe that any man, woman,
and child who has some experience and

meets some biblical qualification,
can use any gift that God gives you.

For building up the body of Christ.

How do we get there?

Given what these verses seem to say?

'cause there's some hard
words in these verses.

Yes.

Yes, there are.

Here's why the English translation
confuses the issue in at least two ways.

Two, we're gonna talk about
first is this, verse 11.

Let a woman learn quietly with all
submissiveness is most of the time heard

and referenced in light of verse 12.

Which says, I don't let a woman
teach or seems to say that at least.

Um, it's easy to see
how you would get there.

One verse talks about
learning the other teaching.

Those two things commonly
go together, right?

But if we reread verse 11 in light of
verses nine through 10, more than 12,

then we might actually get at a better,
better heart of what God is trying to

encourage and, and what Paul's exhorting.

He just, in fact, this is how
we, we framed it in, uh, the

way Nicole read the verses.

I'm gonna go back.

He's talking about finding your worth in
a deeper thing, finding your worth in, in

godliness, not in what other people think.

And in light of finding your worth,
in God, finding your place in God.

Verse 11 would say a woman should
learn in quietness and full submission.

So full submission to who, if it's
tied to this is full submission

to what God would have for.

Us.

If it's in light of verse 12, then
it sounds like it's in light of men.

And so part of the confusion
here is just the way that these

verses have often been read.

Paul just exhorted women to self-control
and to fight these stereotypes and, and

so verse 11 can be an outflow of that
self-control just as men are called to

not argue and fight, but rely on God.

Women, what Paul's saying could be is that
as you find your identity in Christ and as

you pursue godliness, you too rely on God.

So women, do you get to learn?

Yes.

Do you get to learn in submission?

Yes.

But submission to God.

So as with men relying on God.

Paul's saying, I believe in
verse 11, women rely on God

too, in his truth, in his ways.

Quiet submission, self-control before God.

Go back and read it in light
of that reading and see if

that makes a difference.

The second thing, the second
way that English confuses this,

is that most Bibles read.

I do not permit a woman to teach or
to exercise authority over a man.

So, so they separate these
two concepts out, okay.

In Greek, it is just as likely that the
two concepts are combined into one, and

the width authority part is a modifier.

Again, nerd glasses.

Today, a modifier of the teaching
that Paul's talking about here.

So, in other words, and this is
again, not crossing out the Bible, not

trying to, uh, change what it says.

I'm trying to bring us back to
what was hopefully the best right

interpretation you would say.

I do not permit a woman to hold the
authoritative teaching of the church.

Women are not the ultimate authority
over the church's teaching.

Why?

Because on some levels it's like,
well, that doesn't make it any better.

Two things are going on.

One Paul's saying, women don't be
like the Artemis fertility cult.

Don't, don't lead in a priestess,
domineering, false teacher.

False sorts of worship kind of way
over men or over other women, frankly.

But then second, we'll come
back to this next week,

the authority over the
teaching of the church is the

responsibility of who do you know?

God, yes, Jesus' head of his church.

As far as humans go, who has the the
authority over what is taught in a church?

The direction that a church goes

next week, we'll be in one Timothy
three where we see the role of an elder.

We believe that the authority over the
teaching of the church rest on elders and.

Be patient.

We'll dive into this next week.

Salt and light believes that the
role of an elder, the title of an

elder, is assigned by God to men.

Again, be patient.

We'll come back to it.

First half, second half, but as a
preview, here's how, how this verse,

this passage fits with next week passage.

I'm visual, so I tried
to create some of this.

Okay.

The elders are called to set the broad
theological parameters for the church.

That would be true of any church.

Um, the capital T teaching, like
the teaching of the church, the

doctrine, the way the church goes.

That's, that's the quote,
authoritative teaching fair.

Every church has a set, doctrinal
boundaries, this kind of stuff

at the same time.

Part of what an elder's role is, and
we'll see this next week too, is to

help every single person in the church
to thrive in your gifting, to discover

how God's wired you to use your
gifting for the upbuilding of the body.

That may not be talked about in some
of the church circles that you might

be familiar with, but, but that is
a core, core role of an elder is to

help every single person discover
and thrive and use their gift.

And so any gifted teacher, if you
have teaching teach Paul says,

any gifted teacher should teach.

So any instance of teaching Sunday
mornings, DNA groups, kids evangelism

anywhere within the body of Christ,
any given instance of teaching should

and must be carried out as folks
develop and thrive and use their

gifts for the upbuilding of the pop.

Make sense.

Elders set the broad parameters,
gifted men and women and children.

Wouldn't that be fun one day
Get to carry out that teaching.

More to say on this, but tangibly,
this is one of the reasons that

salt and light holds highly to the
value and will continue to pursue

the value of men and women serving
and leading a church together.

There,

it stems from this biblical
truth that we've seen today.

That everyone, everyone is gifted for
mission and ministry and, and in Christ

like Jesus, God is, God is creating
this new humanity where men and women,

and again, children are they, you have
equal value in the kingdom of God.

You have equal value
in the body of Christ.

You get to serve God.

We get to serve God together.

In this redeemed, beautiful partnership.

It's a fast flyover over
some controversial verses.

I'm happy to talk, and again,
we wanna hold these carefully.

We wanna hold these with open hands
and not divide, but this is how the

Bible and the historical culture helps
us see how these hard words apply.

Yes, to Ephesus, but also more
broadly to to the church across

the world and throughout history.

It feels like a lot.

Yeah.

Don't worry.

There's more hard words before we close.

So here we go.

Verse 13 through 15.

Paul says, for Adam was formed
first and then Eve and Adam was

not deceived, but the woman was
deceived and became a transgressor.

A transgressor.

Yet she'll be saved through childbearing
if they continue in faith and love

and holiness with self-control.

All right, let's pray and have a good day.

Y'all.

I knew at best there might be
some like nervous laughter as we

talk about these verses with that.

So here's the deal.

We already saw the verses that
Paul's referencing here, right?

Genesis one and two,
God created Adam first.

Then Eve, God created both of them.

They had equal uh, roles, they had value.

They were working together
distinctly, working together

for the good of God in creation.

And then in Genesis three.

Serpent came, convinced
Eve first, it's undeniable.

Convinced Eve to disobey God and eat and
then eve convinced Adam to disobey God

and eat both the man and the woman sinned.

Both Adam and Eve were
disciplined for their sin.

That discipline involved something
physical for both in, in Eve's case,

it was childbirth being painful.

But also the discipline involved a
broken relationship between God and each

other and, and the world around them.

So how on earth do those truths apply to
men and women serving the church together?

Why does Genesis three matter
in first century Ephesus

in 21st century Fort Worth?

I'll be honest, I don't
fully know, and I'm in.

I'm in good company.

I've, I've read well over 25 or
30 scholars trying to give a clear

answer and they don't fully know.

There's a lot of conjecture, a lot
go really, really, really, really

far, make a lot of assumptions.

But the bottom line is that some of, some
of the reality of these verses are, are

mysterious and in an empirical evidence
kind of world, we don't like mystery.

And so there's part of this
that, like Nicole said, like.

Maybe we get to ask, God, why didn't you
make this a little bit clearer for us?

Maybe it could have caused or stopped
some of the division, some of the pain,

some of this kind of stuff we don't know,

but we don't get to throw it away either.

And there's some things that we can
define, some connections we can make

that are not just pure conjecture,
some that are not way, way, way,

way, way too far because the bible
and historical culture helps.

So, so again, remember one
of the outflows of sin.

Is that Eve would desire to
dominate Adam and Adam would try

to rule over to dominate Eve.

It is not right for any man or
any woman to dominate each other,

but especially in light of the, of
the Ephesian fertility, fertility

cult, the, the cult of Artemis one.

There was this false origin story
that the cult of Artemis had where.

Woman, women, depending on the
translation, either a woman or

women are, are the first and
really the only source of all life.

And so one thing we can say is Paul's
correcting that, is that Adam, Adam was

created first in the biblical narrative.

Adam was created first.

More importantly than that though,
in referencing childbirth, Paul's

speaking directly to some of the
practices of the fertility cult.

You can make the connection right.

Okay.

Paul's referencing childbirth
contrasting against the worship

experiences of a fertility cult, and in
doing so, he's contrasting the cult's

view of salvation, which we'll just
leave it as saying it was sensual.

Okay.

Ecstasy, nirvana, feel, you
know, that kind of stuff.

Like that's salvation.

That's the highest and
best you can hope for.

Part of the Artemis cult view of
salvation, Paul's contrasting it

against a biblical view of salvation.

Which God also told the serpent and
Adam and Eve all the way back in

Genesis, do you remember what God said?

Eve, you're going to have a
child and the serpent is gonna

nip at the child's heel heal.

But the child will one day
crush the serpents head.

That makes a little bit more sense
of why Paul's referencing childbirth

here, at least drawing some connection.

Biblical salvation only comes through
the birth, a childbirth of Eve's.

Great-great-great, great,
great, great, great grandson.

Whose name is Jesus Christ.

The offspring of Eve the child
who is later birthed, who

would crush the serpent's heel.

And so at least even in these confusing
verses, at least what Paul's pointing us

to is not some salvation by some act that
not even all women can, can, can carry

out, and certainly no man can carry out.

But he's pointing us back to find
salvation in Jesus alone, in Christ alone.

Again, the Bible has to
interpret the Bible nowhere.

Nowhere.

Hear me again?

Nowhere does God say that there's any
action that can earn your way to God.

There's no action that you can
pursue that leads to salvation.

There's especially not different
ways of salvation for men and women.

That's nowhere in the Bible.

Paul, in fact, is the greatest
voice, the strongest voice against

what we call workspace salvation.

That if you do this, you'll be saved.

Paul's the strongest voice
in the New Testament in early

Christianity against that.

And so we admittedly lack some historical
context for Paul's words here, but

we can be satisfied that Paul is
pointing us to salvation through the

birth of the only child who can save.

Which is Jesus.

In fact, back to the Greek,
this might be better read.

She woman will be saved to through.

There's an article here, the childbearing,
there's a specific child that is being

referenced here that again, gets lost
in our English translations, which

makes it hard and makes it confusing.

How you doing?

There's a lot to these verses
Again, like this thing was like

triply long in one iteration of it,

but the last words of this chapter

offer us comfort.

They offer us some exhortation.

If you find yourself sitting here somehow
dissatisfied with this, and, and I'll

be honest, like I'm gonna look around
and be like, I'll surely everyone's

dissatisfied with some part of this.

I'm, I've admitted I'm dissatisfied.

This, like, I want these
verses to be more clear.

I want it to be more different.

But you know what, the whole doing,
doing, doing things your way,

submitting authority over God,
telling God, here's what I wish.

That's, that's, that's part of what Paul's
guarding against in these very verses.

Like I need to heed this and go like,
all right, God, I gotta, I gotta

pray with open hands and receive
from you, rather than demanding of

you what I want out of these verses.

That's a struggle going on in the back
of my mind as I talk to you right now.

Maybe you're similarly dissatisfied,

but there's comfort here.

I'll tell you what it is in a minute.

Maybe you're not dissatisfied by that.

Maybe.

Maybe you're dissatisfied
with the mystery.

Maybe you're dissatisfied with
salt and light's, interpretation.

Maybe you want the Bible and Paul
and salt and light to be either more

open or more limited in our view.

Both are true.

Both exist.

You can find blogs to support
whatever view you want on this.

There's not two for the record.

There's a billion views on these verses.

Maybe you're dissatisfied

by reading the exploit to have a
child, and that's not possible for you.

That that would feel hard.

Today, and I wanna say that with care,

but God doesn't promise to
make childbirth possible.

But you know what?

You also don't have to feel some
undue weight and guilt if that's where

you sit right now of going, I guess
there's no way to be, for me to be

saved or for me to be whole, or for me
to be whatever word you put in there.

'cause without discounting the
brokenness and difficulty of that, God

promises salvation through a child.

Whether you are specifically
able to have one or 10 or none,

maybe you're dissatisfied by a thousand
other things, the roles, gender,

actions, whoever you are, whatever.

You're dissatisfied by the
same place to find salvation.

Jesus is the only true place
to find satisfaction as well.

And Jesus is the only
only place to rightly put.

Here we go to these
verses, verse 15, faith

Jesus is the only true source of
love and holiness and self-control,

even maybe applicable in 2025,
US toward folks who disagree.

Only the spirit produces all these things.

Only the spirit would make us submissive
to God and each other, and only

God's spirit can help us continue in

the things that God produces in us.

So

we don't fully understand the
relationship between the fertility cult.

Eves offspring salvation in these verses,
but there's some convergence here and

whatever the, his specific historical
context that's been lost over time, if

you boil it down, here's the promise is
that we can end with biblical confidence

and see that despite the fact that Eve
was deceived in Genesis three before Adam.

Eve was also present when God gave
the promise of salvation, the first

promise of salvation in the scriptures.

That would be true for every man and
woman and child, and that's only possible

through the birth of one child, not Eve's,
not yours, but through the childbirth

and life and death and resurrection that
came out of Eve's line, Christ Jesus.

That truth we can agree on.

And that's the truth we
celebrate as we take communion.